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How Should Valve Address People who Give Up?

Discussion in 'Dota Chat' started by RNGeezus, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. RNGeezus

    RNGeezus Member

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    Curious to see what you all have to say about this.

    I would like the ability to report my opponent for giving up. It's really annoying when you have a great game and they just afk in base. Currently we can only report our opponent for 'communication abuse' but there should be another report option that allows us to report them for 'game-breaking' or 'giving up' at minute 6.

    Is there anyway a programmer can analyze players movements and tell if they are trying or not depending on their skill-bracket if someone is reported for 'giving up'? Maybe compare them to their game history /past performances? I.e. Player only got one camps worth of gold per minute compared to their previous games?

    k thx bai
     
  2. Mimic

    Mimic Member

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    They should do what they should have done a long time ago. Turn on vote-kick (as in DotA 1), turn on -switch (as in DotA 1), and/or allow for a new player to enter the game, perhaps for bonus points to motivate them or something. Of course this all needs to be designed with constraints to prevent abuse.
     
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  3. RNGeezus

    RNGeezus Member

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    That would be really neat to see how people can adapt to a brand new game they have no background in given it's not totally lost (like there's megas).
     
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  4. DasKobold

    DasKobold Member

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    I don't trust my teammates with votekicks, when even in cs:go (a in my opinion way less cancerous game) has a lot of people who abuse it.

    One issue with the dota community is that people blame others, sometimes unknowingly (they think they are right e.g. he thinks you should have done something, but not doing it is the better option) and sometimes they do it on purpose (e.g. you shallow grave them, it runs out and they scream into the mic asking why you didn't grave them.). I don't know why people do this, but I guess they lie so they can feel better about themselves?



    Sooner or later you will end up in a game with 4 idiots who will agree that this lost match is your fault. Just think of all the 5 core matches in which you are forced into picking sup, these kind of people always group up and blame the lose on the guy who got bullied into picking support.
     
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  5. Rubz

    Rubz Member

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    Yeah lets force people to play their best when they are losing 30-0 and having no fun at all,totally not a terrible idea.
     
  6. RNGeezus

    RNGeezus Member

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    Not necessarily their best, but if you don't see the enemy mid bc he's afk in base and ditches his team bc he 'thinks' the game is lost (most likely because he's never experienced a good comeback bc he's not REALLY that good) it's very upsetting to his team and there's nothing fun about winning under conditions like that.

    It's the equivalent to playing a game of smash with your friends and then after you get 1-2 deaths you just suicide because you THINK you can no longer win...your friends probably would be like, this guy is no fun and not invite you out anymore.

    Maybe valve could use AI technology to give you a 'percentage tries' score and match the people who give up easily together. Stay out of my games.
     
  7. DasKobold

    DasKobold Member

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    how often do you end up in these 30-0 games? Look, sometimes people just wrongly judge the situation and throw a winable game. Also keep in mind that the enemy can get overconfident and throw the game away. So never giving up is always a good thing.
     
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  8. Bargh

    Bargh Member

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    How Valve responds? Buffs rubberband, making game less enjoyable for everyone, because some kids cant stand losing.
     
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  9. Nisamraw

    Nisamraw Member

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    Yeah, no thanks. The game is already horrible enough when your cores are 0-15 or something. Terrible idea.

    It's actually quite the opposite. When you give up, you accept your loss. It's better than to struggle for 40min+ in vain. To lose a game in 20min or in 50min+ is exactly the same thing, except that in the second case, you're wasting much more time for nothing.

    Giving up is required, especially in DotA 2 where you have a shitload of unfair games that are straight lost from min 0.

    I don't enjoy being farmed, nor do I enjoy farming a retarded ennemy team. I try to end the game ASAP in both cases (no fountain farming, or uneccessary highground holds).

    The game gets cancerous when you have kiddos that think they'll comeback with a 0.000001% chance, when they already failed so hard before. They are the ones that don't accept losing, not the other way around.
     
  10. Oesile

    Oesile Member

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    I think you lose these games because you give up from min 0 though.

    Nah, what I hate is when players queue for a game of dota and decide mid-match they don't wanna play anymore 'because we lost'. You see, I just want to play a game of dotes even if it's a game I'm gonna lose -losing is part of the game, suck it up.
    When I win, I don't want my opponents to give up to steal my satisfaction, and when I lose, I don't want some idiot teammate to grief just because he thinks winning is all that matters and if he's not gonna win then there is no point.

    I'd rather have someone that can't accept losing but actually plays the damn game, then someone that can't accept playing when he's losing.
     
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  11. Nisamraw

    Nisamraw Member

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    Idc what you think though. When you have two retards battling for mid, and a 4 agi carry LU, the game is over, whether you want it or not. You, believing that you're in some kind of anime where you will beat the odds just because you decided to, is not, never was, and never will be reality, and is irrelevant either way.

    If you feel some kind of satisfaction winning against players that are clearly far inferior in skill, I feel sorry for you. You must be the kind of guy that goes full premade against full pub, and think that you're pro because you're winning games. Man, aren't you cool?

    You're not making any sense, which is understandable since the one who is giving up is, by definition, actually fine with losing the game. You're not fooling anyone but yourself.

    You're obviously the one that cannot accept defeat, "suck it up".
     
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  12. Oesile

    Oesile Member

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    No, I just know that my opponents are just as retarded as my team, no matter how good their lineup is it doesn't matter if we outplay them or they outplay themselves.
    Sometimes all you need to do is camp their midlaner and make him tilt, or win one good teamfight- I don't see how you're ever going to lose a game at 0 min.

    You somehow think you can predict how everything is going to go like you're some anime edgelord, but I'm pretty sure quite some games you 'gave up in' are well salvageable. You're shit at dota, I'm shit at dota, and neither of us can predict the odds of a 3k frigging game.

    They are not inferior in skill? We are being matched together for a reason? I'm in my proper 3k skillbracket, so there isn't any skill discrepancy you're alluding at.
    Rather, it seems like you're bitter whether people win or lose.

    And yes, I feel some satisfaction, because consistently winning against the 'inferior skilled' players that are in my damn bracket means I'm improving.

    I am making sense. I'm saying, I want my teammates to finish the damn game even if they are whiny bitches. I hate the whiny bitches too because realistically someone is going to lose 50% of their games if they are in the right skillbracket so what the fuck are they going off for, but I'd glady have them in my team over someone like you who gives up min 0 because we have 4 agi carries.
    Literally give me a team of 4 russians every game and I would be soo happy.

    I don't see how you came to this conclusion, since I just want to play games from start to end, and enjoy both winning and losing. But sure, I will suck it up, you just better keep goddamn playing.

    My last thoughts on the matter are that in Dota, you're meant to keep playing till the end even if you lose. End of discussion- if you don't like it, fuck off to some other game that allows surrendering.
     
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  13. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    Fun fact, you learn much more when you are on the losing side in comparison to being on the winning.
    So accepting defeat and stop playing when on the underfoot, you are hindering your progress.

    Then some people say "I have 5,000 games of DotA and I'm just 3,000 rating, because my teammates are bad", while they do not struggle to improve, do not put their best, despite the odds etc.

    Valve does not (need to) add anything for players which help/punish people who give up, they are doing that themselves.
     
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  14. RNGeezus

    RNGeezus Member

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    Wait this isn't an anime? Shit...

    You seem to think you have it all figured out. Can you please tell me how you know the future before it even happens? I'd like to invest in some different cryptos.

    Apart from you defeating yourself, I don't see why you can't win. Sure it's not gonna be all the time, but you probably can win more than you think. Curious as to where you got the pub premade comment since he never said so anywhere in his response. If anything you seem like the one that isn't making any sense since you're fabricating your own reality based on what you 'think' is going to happen. Hahaha

    As Han Solo would say,

    "Never tell me the odds."
     
  15. Nisamraw

    Nisamraw Member

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    Never said I give up min 0 though. But you can pretty much say the game is won/lost past min 15-20 at best, given your current line-up and score. If you have troubles estimating your overall level, as well as your team mates, and your ennemies, then again, I feel sorry for you. It's not a crazy anime power or some shit, it's called logic. Just like a Crystal Maiden will never outcarry a Medusa past 40min. You being somewhat delusional won't change that fact.


    You see, your issue is that you're talking about the 1% of games that are somehow salvageable and that you might come back from, while I'm talking about the elephant on the room, that is the 99% others that are lost. I don't play DotA to waste my time, not like in I'm wasting my time playing a video game, but rather I'm not here to pretend that I'm in an anime, just to struggle for that 1 game out of 100 that I might come back from, while I'm losing on the 99 remaining. I'm a pragmatic guy, such childish reasonings are not worth my time.

    If struggling in vain was worth it, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Because DotA hasn't, and never had, proven issues with its MM. Even yourself cannot believe that, so please don't make up excuses.

    I'm bitter when I'm wasting my time. Not when I lose or win. It doesn't matter to me. Winning against feeders on purpose isn't worth my time either.

    Or it just means that you were lucky, or carried. When I win in 20min because of the sheer skill decrepancy, I don't feel like I improved or anything, far from it. When you can go Dagon 5 on AM second item, and still win the game, as it happens in a lot of cases, it means that the game was meant to be won no matter what.

    Unless you're IceFrog, and forgot to mention it, who are you to tell what DotA is meant to be? On the contrary, it's been more than 10years, and while it's true people have to play "until the end", they always were free to give up at some point. Because ultimately, you're just saying that people have to play "until the end", and that is true, but qualitatively speaking, you can play until the end like shit, as in "I give up, idc anymore". How are you gonna determine that a player is not playing 100% anyway? He might have not given up, and still play like if he had, because he's answering the phone, is sick or something.

    That's called trends, maths, & statics, you smart guy. Do you need to be able to predict the future to know that if you're driving your car at 100mph in a straigth line, you're highely likely to hit that wall 50 feet away? Wow such amazing powers.

    And it's also well-known that stock buyers are playing on markets at pure random, like they are throwing dices or something. There are things like taking risks, but they are calculated, unlike you're totally retarded and went all-in, in which case I feel bad for you, but it has nothing to do with being able to forsee the future : /

    Now let's get back to DotA, and assume that your team is Crystal Maiden, Io, Treant, Undying & Nyx, versus whatever. After 5min, their AM is already 5-0. What are your odds to win this game? 0.1% or something? What's the point seriously. Are you seriously going to try hard and get farmed because 'lul they might die IRL in an earthquake you never know'?

    I'm rational. If I don't play the lottery, it's not because it's statisically impossible to win it, because it is, but because the chances are so slim that it's not worth it.

    I took a shit line-up on purpose to demonstrate my point, but anywhere from 0 to 20% is litteraly a waste of time and efforts. Granted, there are a lot of factors to account for, which might make SOME games difficult to predict overall, but I never said I was giving up 100% of my games. Just the meaningless ones. The ones you know are deeply fucked because: your carry player cannot outcarry theirs as he averages 300gpm on his account with 4k games played and he spams core role, your line-up is totally useless past 20min and you were already losing the game before when you weren't supposed to, you have 3 retards fighting for mid, your support has no idea how to ward the map etc, 30-40k networth difference min40 etc.

    So many scenarios that yell that the game is done for. Granted, you could still win, but the keyword here is "COULD", like it's so unlikely anyway, what's the point.

    It's not like miracles cannot happen, they can. But it's totally irrational to expect miracles every lost game, and if I were expecting a miracle each time, I'd be a godamn retard that was wasting its time, therefore thank god am I able to give up at some point.

    Also note that the difference between you and me is that I don't care if you tryhard or not, I'm not forcing my way of playing DotA into others, unlike you and the previous poster. If you want to waste your time believing that you'll win that 1% game because REASONS (power of friendship, positiveness, power of love, power of anime etc), please by all means, feel free to do so.

    I quoted two lines, not ouf of context, that were totally contradicting themselves. The rest is just you trying to be clever when you aren't. I just explicitly assumed something, never said it was reality. Are you 5y old or something?

    Yeah, I already got that your cultural references and way of thinking were as low as SW. That actually explains a lot. I won't waste any more of my time answering to you, at least the other user provided some decent level of arguments.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  16. RNGeezus

    RNGeezus Member

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    Umad?
     
  17. slipkwar

    slipkwar Member

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    I don't play ranked, but you can still win with a stupid draft sometimes.
     
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  18. RNGeezus

    RNGeezus Member

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    Oh wow you mean to tell me you still play even if you've already chalked up the draft to have a win chance of 3.786% good for you :)
     
  19. IHateLeavers

    IHateLeavers Member

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    You cant do anything about it tbh. However, keep in mind that once you reach 6-7k you wont see such BS too often.
     
  20. DasKobold

    DasKobold Member

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    you guys said the same thing about 5k not long ago. Always set to goal to a mmr that almost no one has...
     
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