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Underlord ASU

Discussion in 'Meta-Game Discussion' started by Equivocal, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    I tested and the stack duration doesn't increase.
     
  2. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    Do tell me how you tested it, works on my machine.

    20180109194502_1.jpg
     
  3. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    I guess the tool tip is wrong in the game. Thanks.
     
  4. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    Illusions scale only with "base damage" (white number), and aura provides "added damage" (green number), that doesnt affect illusions. If you got a divine rapier, for example, your hero's illusions wont deal any extra damage, only hero himself will.

    So, it's wrong tooltip? Good to know...

    It depends on your team's setup, and how teamfight went. Only heroes, that died near Underlord count, and Underlord himself must survive.
    When i watch competive games, a teamfight lost at 30+ min usually means enemy loses a lane or even two, cause teams have decent pushing power anyways. They dont need underlord's ASU for that, their carry/mid heroes usually do that job anyway. If enemies dont have BB, of course.
    I'll say it again - it's a nice situational item, just like Dagon on Bloodseeker or ASU on Luna, but nothing more, and far from core.
     
    Marquis de Gibus likes this.
  5. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    The ASU is pretty good if, say, you have some hero that can instantly delete another hero from game (like CK or PA). Even at one hero kill it is already a big value for your teammates (30 damage with Talent) and a creepwave is somewhat 10-15 damage.

    This item is still a snowball item that allows you, when having an upperhand, to steamroll through the game. If you are behind, I'm not so sure about its effectiveness.

    About Mek vs. Guard, it is quite an unbalanced comparison. Mek is 2350 while CG is 3550. Mek can be upgraded while CG is a dead item. CG has good synergy with Atrophy Aura (damage block stacks better with attack damage reduction) while Mek's HP heal helps a lot versus physical and magical damage. The ability to be built into Greaves at late game is also a big factor. Manacost shouldn't be a problem as this guy will be building Arcane and situationally Soul Ring for his consumption, or even Urn into Spirit Vessel that is also very powerful. He also has big Int gain to supply his mana.

    I'd rather say Buckler is a mini-Mek while CG is a mini-Greaves.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018 at 11:25 AM
  6. ManOnTheCan

    ManOnTheCan Member

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    I've also been thinking about going Helm of the Dominator instead of an early mek. It helps out with pushes, gives nice HP regen, and attack speed boost.

    If you dominate a catapult you can slow-seige with Pit and Firestorm. Also you can split push with a creep and then ult your team in to finish off a tower.
     
  7. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    yeah valve just can't really update them properly sometimes


    Okay I admit that you probably wont want to make aghanim when your team consists of Warlock, Timbersaw and Phoenix. But it is such an amazing team damage boost for every hero which has even a chance to right click something once.
    Around 20 min Underlord with a mek is relatively hard to take down as long as he has his team to back him up.

    20 min is a completely different matter though. It is a fairly expected timing for UL agh to come online, as he has both his Atrophy Aura talent and Mek at ready. Taking raxes around 24 min is a crippling defeat especially when Underlord's team gets even more powerful every minute.

    I am 100% sure aghs is The core item for undelord. With just UL + 2 starving supports after a crushing teamfight they alone can take t2 + raxes thanks to UL sitting comfortably with +400 damage, which translates to +800 damage if you consider two extra heroes. The damage boost is insane, utterly unheard of.


    I honestly prefer mek over CG. Not only because of the points you pointed out, but it the ability to turn around fights with a burst heal just makes the Aghanim build really damn reliable.

    Why slow siege when you can end the game @25 min?
     
  8. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    Hmm, but of course, when many thouthands bucks are on stake, or even millions (and the title of TI winner), they still never buy ASU on Underlord?
    Why?
     
  9. Equivocal

    Equivocal Member

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    It took months for pros to not build vanguard for ember spirit in every single game when he was first released. If you think e-sports events are item build pioneer conventions you are extremely wrong.
     
  10. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @Equivocal, @MortalKombat3:
    Despite me being against Scepter on Underlord as a core item (I like it classified like a situational).
    Using competitive matches/players as an argument is bad.

    Professional players does not risk or use not-tested builds in their matches. And if they are forced to play a specific hero (based on his overall performance against said already picked hero) out of their routine usually do the cookie-cutter build with it.

    Only pocket strategies and previously prepared unorthodox and heavily trained ones can differ from the normal builds.
     
  11. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Member

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    People had been using Aghanim on Void like years before it was even a thing in pro scene.

    With million dollars at stake would you want to try some cheesy strat that was not tested a lot before actual things?
     
  12. MortalKombat3

    MortalKombat3 Member

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    When he was OP as fuck, you mean? You could build any item on him and still win. BTW, VG is OK choice for old Ember, considering he hadnt serious mana problems, and extra early tankines coupled with his skill, could make him dominate midgame.

    Sure, but when Mirana's ASU was released, it instantly became core item for her, including competive. Same for reworked MoM or HoD - they quickly entered into competive meta Why? Because everyone understood that it's really powerful item picks!
    Pros quickly realize really powerful items/builds, believe me. But of course, they wont risk using situational, risky and timing-based item, that is powerful ONLY if used damn all right, such as Underlord's ASU.
     
    kamukag3e likes this.
  13. kamukag3e

    kamukag3e Member

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    @MortalKombat3:
    Well, all professional players still play public games and have some experience from there which they can apply (or at least partially) in their competitive matches.

    If something is so powerful that it's obviously broken - they can easily use it in their games.
    But most of the stuff (even those which are considered overpowering in public matches) are situational and can be easily shut ed down by a group effort - which competitive matches are based around.

    Some of the 'cancer' heroes are not even a nuisance in a competitive match because it will be countered right from the start or when he is at it's weakest point etc.

    So no more 'general talk', ASU is not used on competitive because it's not as powerful as Equivocal try to describe it at least in their games, but:
    1) that's not an issue if it's strong in a public environment;
    2) that's not a good argument, because it doesn't represent the whole picture.